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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Many of you know my philosophy on stock vs aftermarket parts. I always test the stock stuff to make sure when adding an aftermarket part to any of our shop cars that it is solving a durability problem or adding performance. You can pretty much assume if any of our cars have a part on them that that part is making the car go faster or making it more reliable.

Our drag car has been well over 600whp for quite a while now. We haven't fully sorted out the transmission but it's run 10's at over 140mph and has exceeded 200mph in a mile recently. The engine has been extremely reliable over these couple of years. I've pulled bearing caps and watched the oil. I've checked valve lash and compression. Everything is happy.

On the run after the 200mph speed was hit I turned the boost from 25 to 30+ psi and got a much better launch. The thing was set to go much faster. Unfortunately the nut behind the wheel was a little out of adjustment. I shifted from 3rd and must have let the clutch out a little too quickly, causing the trans to block the shift. The next attempt found 2nd gear :(

I've been running a stock oil pump (slightly modified for higher pressure and increased flow) in hopes of proving its strength or weakness. Seemed like a good idea at the time. The pump has stood up to some pretty brutal treatment in the past but it did not like spinning to 10,800 rpm at all. I didn't know it had exploded right away so unfortunately I found 4th and got on it for a couple of seconds with 0psi oil pressure.

The aftermath:
- stock oil pump completely exploded, housing shattered
- MWR rod bearings badly damaged but held together and did not spin. The dry film coating and tri-metal construction obviously was a huge help there, dealing with the extreme heat and lack of lubrication without allowing a rod to come apart or the crank to be destroyed.
- Crank scuffed a little, will polish out just fine.
- Rods got a bit hot but check out fine.
- Main bearings look 100% fine
- pistons are fine
- Head, cams are fine
- Valves- all fine, none even touched pistons.

In retrospect it was stupid to still have a stock pump in there. I think I proved that under ideal conditions the stock oil pump can hold up ok for a while. I run a stock crank pulley and use Mobil 1 15W50 and do not allow any oil starvation. In this case though, had I been running the Circuitworx oil pump gears my engine would have been fine and I may have even run my best speed ever on that run. Instead I'm rebuilding the bottom end of the engine and replacing some parts. In the future I think I'll be a little more careful about the OEM parts I insist on testing to their limits. I made this decision a long time ago regarding stock 2ZZ valves. I've seen enough of those come apart in customers' stock engines even at reasonable RPMs to know that's not something I want to risk.

Other interesting observations: even after running to 9500rpm regularly the stock cylinder walls and Mahle piston skirts looked great. Cool. Also, I don't recommend trying it but apparently the MWR valves and springs will survive a short burst to 10,800 rpm with no damage. Can't say if the valves floated but if they did it wasn't enough to hit the pistons. Whew.



Cliff notes: the stock oil pump can hold up pretty well but the risk is stupid and not worth the savings- get the Circuitworx pump as cheap insurance!
 

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I am glad I put that oil gear!
Wow, 10,800 rpm with your valves and springs is really amazing! I am just gonna go and try that ...



































Just kidding! :)
 

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Thank you
thats good to know
 

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sorry to hear about your motor Matt. I've had teh same thing happen - had a part I figured was doing well enough and then you slip up and BAM that couple of bucks you saved comes back to haunt you.


This is exactly why I tell everyone that is building a high rev motor that they need the valves springs and pump gears at a minimum.
 

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It's actually crazy for anyone but for a shop to take those risks. But it's really good to have s hop that does those tests for us! :)

At least people know that they are not putting money in the trash when they buy those ..
 

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iv had this happen before..i damaged the clutch/ pistons/ exaust valves / oil pump and gears / chain tensioner / and some other misc parts... ):
 

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Is any danger on build 1zz motor if i use OEM oil pump?
And what about timing chain? is is capable to held 600whp? Is it safe tu use stock one?
 

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how hard is the pump to change anyways if you are jsut doing a one for one swap on a undamaged oem one...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Is any danger on build 1zz motor if i use OEM oil pump?
And what about timing chain? is is capable to held 600whp? Is it safe tu use stock one?
I've only seen one of those explode I believe. We do carry the CWX gears for the 1zz as well. In addition to the durability I believe they flow a little more too. The 1zz can use all of the oiling help it can get.

Timing components on our 2zz all look great and will be reused. I don't think the 1zz lives at 600whp period so the timing system is not a factor. We did see the 1zz timing system starting to beat itself up revving over 8k regularly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
how hard is the pump to change anyways if you are jsut doing a one for one swap on a undamaged oem one...
Not the easiest job. Valve cover, front cover and timing system needs to come off. Worth it though if you plan to run the engine hard. You could easily install cams at the same time or even an upgraded head with stainless valves.
 

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Hi!

I have installed Piper cams stage 2, MWR valves and valve springs and an oil cooler (along with an MP-62 supercharger). How high can I rev?

If I also upgrade the oil pump gears and put a Moroso oil pan, how high can I rev then?
 

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I've only seen one of those explode I believe. We do carry the CWX gears for the 1zz as well. In addition to the durability I believe they flow a little more too. The 1zz can use all of the oiling help it can get.

Timing components on our 2zz all look great and will be reused. I don't think the 1zz lives at 600whp period so the timing system is not a factor. We did see the 1zz timing system starting to beat itself up revving over 8k regularly.
Thanks for the answers Matt!
So you do not recommend to rev 1zz above 8k? Even if i put supertech valves, crover springs/stage 2 cams, wiseco pistons, pauter rods?
My worry is oil pump and timing chain. Or if i stay with standard rev litim i will be fine?
Thanks,

Tomas
 

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So Matt, any suggestions regarding safe rev limit and modifications required to reach it?
 
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