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Klaatu barada nikto
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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Tails are pending sale to Rana/celicasaur currently. Paypal invoice has been sent.
 

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Klaatu barada nikto
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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
TSUNAMI TAILS HAVE BEEN SOLD!!! 😁(y)
 

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Bring on the 12's...
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David,

I'm so impressed with how well you covered your tracks to screw me over on these lights. We both know I won't stand a chance in hell of getting a refund from you from the paypal dispute that I just opened, but I'm sure one day karma will get you back for this.

Buying from a long-standing member of the newcelica community such as yourself is something that buyers should be able to do with trust. You took advantage of that trust, covered the technical disclaimers by mentioning there are scuffs and stress cracks, but honestly you did not make it clear just how bad the lights are and you know what you did by making me agree to no refunds, sold as seen as it's an old/custom part etc etc Gosh the job you did is pretty terrible too - the lights aren't even evenly matched in terms of the shade of the black tint on the inside. The tail light without many stress cracks is so lightly tinted that it's not far from an original one.

I get it....times are hard...covid 19 is hitting everybody in different ways and clearly you are struggling with this desperate act to deceive somebody. I've lost my money that I gave to you....I hope it serves you well enough to put food on the table. If you really wanted some money, you could have just asked and we'd all have chipped in for you.

For anybody who thinks this guy can be trusted in the future, here's what I received an hour ago via the postman, Bearing in mind, the packaging was in good condition and the tail lights were nicely wrapped in bubble wrap:

54601


54602


54603


54604


54605


54606


54607


54608



Now, upon very close inspection on the third picture of this thread you can see what looks like the stress cracks here, so theoretically, he's covered...as a buyer I'm sure I'll be blamed for this, especially seeing as he described the condition as "Cosmetic issues to note (as shown in photos below) are some scratches/stress marks on the outer clear covers, which I didn't find very noticeable while on my car". But looking at the pictures I've just posted vs the ones he sent in the thread, can anybody honestly have thought the light would be this bad? I think not. A few light marks here and there is one thing, but damn, this is as good as junk. Even when I asked for pictures via email (albeit I wanted more focus on the edges) it's still not possible to make out this level of damage.



Whatever. I'll live. I'm so glad I didn't sell my original, mint tsunami tails while waiting for this garbage to arrive. I'm going to put them on ebay as soon as the paypal dispute gets ruled in his favour and try to sell them for whatever they go for, maybe $100 bux or something. Don't worry David, I'll send that $100 as a paypal gift to you so that you can buy some new shoes for the winter. We wouldn't want your feet to get cold or wet now.
 

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Klaatu barada nikto
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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Rana, I don't seek to fool or cheat anyone and believe I posted the parts reasonably, and with clear terms of sale. I have also sold many parts here over the years, with many buyers who know I sell fairly. These taillights are long discontinued & over at least 15 years old now, during which time they have been modified & used and exposed to sun & weather as you knew. I described the parts and made effort to be clear on the condition/wear. I emailed you additional pics as requested, and in the emails offered even more pics/info beyond those before shipping if you wanted, which you did not take me up on. I consistently reinforced that the tails were certainly not perfect and that you should bear this in mind. As the posted sale pics show, the dark coloration shifted somewhat on one tail more than the other... likely due to UV exposure over time being parked in an outdoor spot, but is still darker than stock tsunami tails. Additionally the coloration looks varied in different lighting because it is a transparent smoke and not paint. However since the silicone could be removed and the tails can be re-opened, the inner portion could be re-tinted as well. The marks in the outer cover do not compromise structure or function and are minor in my opinion (unless maybe you are inches away from the tails), but I did show them in the pics provided and clearly noted this issue. I really didn't notice the small marks much unless the sun hit them just right either, and the marks are almost exclusively on the passenger tail for unknown reasons (obviously you clearly only show pics of that side). But again I offered any additional pics you wanted before shipping. As for all sales being final with no refunds, I have been advised by Paypal that all sellers of used parts must do this since many people buy parts and attempt to get money back regardless of part conditions, shipping loss/damage etc.

In any case, the rational thing to do would have been to contact me directly rather than leaping to vent such presumptions and opinions. I only received this message and a Paypal dispute today, but no direct email from you attempting to discuss the situation or allowing for any direct replies from me regarding the parts condition to offer details I mention here. It seems that you also removed your post above about accepting the tails in as-is condition, yet I am being accused by you of manipulating the info? Hmmm. Its in the Paypal invoice anyway so it doesn't really matter. Ultimately it comes down to a difference of opinion on details of appearance, which is very commonly the case in the sale of old used or modified car parts, and why I listed mine honestly. It is always wise to carefully observe all details in photos and seek more if you want to be certain, which I also offered to be transparent. The fact is that the true and accurate condition is shown in mine and there are no tricks here. If you wish to continue this debate, I will simply continue through paypal and let them decide.
 

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Bring on the 12's...
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There's no debate. You've won. You managed to sell garbage for strong money and there's no chance in hell I'll get the PayPal dispute ruled in my favour. I knew this before I even wrote my post. As for coming to you to discuss the damage....really?? I'm supposed to believe that somebody who covered their tracks so well, is going to listen to me moan about the condition of them? You knew they were screwed and you knew any buyers would be super pissed when they received them, so you conducted the sale in this way. If you would have been prepared to have worked with me upon me receiving them and discovering their horrible condition, you would have thought..."hmmm....it would be a lot less hassle if I just very openly and transparently showed him pictures of all of the stress cracks not from favourable angles and then let him decide if he still wants it" - but of course...why do that...nobody would buy these for even $100USD because they are.....garbage. Useless. Who's going to run these lights on their car...well, besides you of course. No, rather if you try your hand at selling them in the way which you did - you get paid strong money for them and the buyer won't stand a chance of a refund. Bravo...bravo...

Let's leave it to PayPal. When they rule in your favour because of all of the disclaimers that I tripped on, I'll figure out a creative way to auction or sell these lights off in such a way that will help generate the most money for you and I'll PayPal gift you some more funds to help you out seeing as xmas is around the corner etc.

All the best sir and have a good weekend.
 

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Klaatu barada nikto
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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Fully functional parts with such wear are hardly useless or garbage, and I made it abundantly clear to you that the parts were far from perfect or show-quality. You are obviously aware that Paypal could decide in your favor, or you wouldn't have filed a claim. I am not seeking to "win", only what is reasonable. I also wouldn't call the final $250. I ended up with on the tails exactly "strong" money. I see common 03 red tails in similar or even poorer condition sell for that much online.

Ultimately, aside from the parts amount, there would be another nearly $200. in shipping on the parts both ways that I am sure you would expect me to pay for, and that I cannot agree with since I made every attempt to offer any info you required before sale. Although the posted pics weren't as close up as yours they do show the marks, and as I said I offered even more emailed pics if you wanted, but you declined. All info was made available to you before sale.

Regardless of all this, you are clearly determined to believe what you want to believe, and unwilling to see any other perspective. In truth, you have no idea what I may have done to try to accommodate you more if you just replied with a little more decorum. Negativity doesn't beget productivity sir.
 

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I mean I can pretty clearly see most of those scratches that you're highlighting in the original pictures... I don't think it's very professional to go straight to the forums to air your dirty laundry. Deal with this shit privately first.

IMO lessons can be learned here, as a seller it's important to highlight any defects so you don't end up with situations like this. As a buyer, take very close looks at all the pictures and ask for more if you aren't satisfied. This is a cosmetic item on the exterior of a car. It's used. It's not going to be perfect.
 

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Bring on the 12's...
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I mean I can pretty clearly see most of those scratches that you're highlighting in the original pictures... I don't think it's very professional to go straight to the forums to air your dirty laundry. Deal with this shit privately first.

IMO lessons can be learned here, as a seller it's important to highlight any defects so you don't end up with situations like this. As a buyer, take very close looks at all the pictures and ask for more if you aren't satisfied. This is a cosmetic item on the exterior of a car. It's used. It's not going to be perfect.
Yes I noticed them and at worst I thought they were surface scratches and gave him the benefit of the doubt. I did request to see more pictures and none of the pictures he sent over had highlighted the stress cracks in the slightest. Let's be honest here...would I have bought them if I'd seen the cracks? No. Would anybody have bought them? Probably not. So yes, after he sent me a round of nice pictures, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and thought he's an OG nc.org member so everything must be fine. This isn't my first rodeo and I've been buying/selling used parts online for around 15 years. I know old items wont be perfect. However it's very clear to see what happened here.

Anyway. It's done now. Amazingly I managed to get a refund approved and the lights are back with him. Make him a suitable offer for the lights and that way everybody wins.

I'm out. All the best guys.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Actually its not amazing that you got the refund, paypal contacted me and asked what I thought would be a reasonable outcome. I told them I had no problem with a refund if the parts were returned in the same condition as sent, my only issue was with shipping costs... so we came to an agreement that worked for everyone. I agreed to the refund and they offered me a paypal payment voucher for more than half of the original amount of the sale so I lost nothing in shipping. I was also contacted by a new buyer that wants the tails even after seeing all the close-up pics posted here.

So, everyone wins and it actually seems to have worked out better for me than if the tails weren't returned. LOL
 

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Glad everything worked out, both of you are a long time standing members (and we are a dying breed as we are not as active as we used to be these days). I can see why the buyer bought from someone on here (OG of ncorg) vs going on eBay - because we are a small community but the buyer could have easily snagged these tails for a lot cheaper on eBay, than what these were listed for sale. So to the seller, there should have been some type of leniency, I think. It just sucks that the seller has the ability to edit the starting post, too - I think that should be adjusted and should not be allowed. Sorry that you two had a bad transaction, but I am glad that everything was posted publicly. Lesson learned, for everyone, this will help people in the future when making a sale and how to go about it. I think any damages should be clearly mentioned in the listing as well as visible photos showing said damages. It's like buying a car, and it's not just about you see what you get and then later finding out that you have loads of engine problems. Which wasn't mentioned in the sale thread. In addition, a sale listed as-is you are accepting everything exactly in the photos with the opportunity that something may be wrong, but as a buyer you rely on the seller being up front about it. Not just showing it in the photos and expecting the buyer to take it up for grabs. The sale photos are not very clear to show any damages either as there is much reflection so i can easily see how this could be very misleading from the buyers point of view. In addition, the way the buyer was able to take photos at another angel and also show the damages clearly is how the seller should have originally took the photos to show the damages. Seller - be clear about damages, don't just provide minimal photos. Show the damages clearly so there are no assumptions. Buyer - ask about any damages, and verify. Don't make assumptions.

I'm not sure what method the seller asked to get the payment, but don't ever send as friends and family, unless it's to a friend or a family member; plus I think PayPal caught on to everyone doing that, and actually charges the sender a fee when using this method (unlike before when you could send money to friends and family and there were no fees); but you also have other apps these days for that such as CashAPP, Venmo (owned by paypal but a separate entity), Facebook cash (or whatever), and ZELLE. There are others out there too. NOT PayPal. Always protect yourself, as an insurance policy - if it wasn't for PayPal intervening, I wonder where that would have left this transaction. It is a shame that it took PayPal to assist you guys in resolving this issue. I was actually going to comment a couple weeks ago, but I decided against it but seeing as this was recently updated, I am glad that things ultimately worked out in both of your favors.

EDIT: The sale photos are not very clear to show any damages either as there is much reflection so i can easily see how this could be very misleading from the buyers point of view. In addition, the way the buyer was able to take photos at another angel and also show the damages clearly is how the seller should have originally took the photos to show the damages.
 

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Bring on the 12's...
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Hey Blasian, always nice to hear from an OG - yes there aren't many of us left tbh.

Many lessons that can be learnt from all and by all reading this thread. In the end, it worked out best for the seller, but it's all good, I'm over it. You win some, you lose some. The funny thing is, I actually have a solid mint pair of tsunami tails already and have had them for well over 10 years...I was only interested in these because they looked awesome from the pics he posted and I figured it would be a no-brainer buying from him being a 'trusted' member.

But yeah - it's done now. He got paid. I got some of my money back (tbh I wasn't expecting any, so I'm happy enough with it) and nc.org got the most action it has seen for years 😄 I'll stick with my conventional tsunami tails and enjoy a coke and a smile (Richard Pryor line).

Peace out.
 

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Klaatu barada nikto
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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Yes, this is completed and it seems to have worked out somewhat reasonably. This was ultimately a situation to be resolved only by the two parties involved through paypal as mediator. No one else is privy to all the details involved, and there have been many. But to drag it on here is pointless and tactless. No need to continue to beat the horse.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
MODS, I believe it is time to close this sale thread. Thanks.
 
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