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Discussion Starter #1
(A celica with a TPR exhaust & Injen CAI) VS. (a celica with MWRacing pretuned PFC & Injen CAI)

AFter about an hour of reading old threads on the PFC and threads of the TPR exhaust I find the gains to be pretty dang close, what you guys think?
 

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LaoBoyJames said:
(A celica with a TPR exhaust & Injen CAI) VS. (a celica with MWRacing pretuned PFC & Injen CAI)

AFter about an hour of reading old threads on the PFC and threads of the TPR exhaust I find the gains to be pretty dang close, what you guys think?
Has to be one the same car, same day, same dyno, etc... to even begin to compare...
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Gotcha. Hey Blue Bomber what would be your guess though (just a guess) on the peak hp output with an Injen CAI+TPR exhaust? I mean obviously it hasn't been done but Ive seen that an avg celica with a TRD and Injen combo(GTS of course) produces 174hp I may be wrong, and since TPR obviously produces more than TRD that would make it around the range of MWR's injen+pfc combo of 177hp safely tuned, and again I wanna emphasize "guess" and "around". Flame away its okay...
 

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Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku
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Originally posted by LaoBoyJames
Gotcha. Hey Blue Bomber what would be your guess though (just a guess) on the peak hp output with an Injen CAI+TPR exhaust? I mean obviously it hasn't been done but Ive seen that an avg celica with a TRD and Injen combo(GTS of course) produces 174hp I may be wrong, and since TPR obviously produces more than TRD that would make it around the range of MWR's injen+pfc combo of 177hp safely tuned, and again I wanna emphasize "guess" and "around". Flame away its okay...
Most likely it would be about the same as a TPR CAI with TPR exhaust up high. The TPR CAI and Injen CAI are neck and neck in top end (a different story in low and mid), but it's unknown if the MAFS fins and better MAFS placement of the TPR CAI would have more of an effect up high when an exhaust is added (engine runs leaner than with a CAI alone). Give it a couple months when the 2nd and 3rd TPR exhaust GBs are finished, people have the exhausts installed, and a few hopefully dyno them. Then we'll get to see how other intakes respond to it, along with other mods like headers and the PFC.

Like nyoneway said, though, comparing dynos isn't an exact science. A ton of things influence the cars power output, including air temperature, humidity, engine temp, engine condition, fan on/off, hood open/closed, dyno accuracy, etc. Differences in most of these will alter the dyno from one day to the next (some will even alter dynos done 5 min later), so dynos need to be done on the same day under the same conditions to be accurate and useful for comparison.

The most important difference, though, is the power that the car was making stock. Not all cars dyno the same stock, and that difference affects all future dynos. If you see a car with I/E making 170, and another with I/H/E making the same power with different I/E combo, you may think the parts on the second car are inferior. But in fact, the car with I/H/E may have been making 5hp less stock, which would in turn make the gains of the I/H/E more resonable. Without a recent baseline stock dyno on the same car for comparison, measuring the gains of multiple parts can be pretty innaccurate, and comparing that dyno to other cars' dynos is basically impossible.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Cool, I can't wait to see feedback from the 1st batch of buyers so I can purchase the exhaust instead of a Power FC. I'm basically aiming for a modest 177-180hp, and right now I just have a an Injen intake. I used to own a "custom" axle back exhaust which was kinda loud and lacked torque, convincing me to switch back to stock. A powerfc would help me out in the tq department but if I hear good things amongst the first tpr owners ima gettin it for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
BTW can I ask what should the stock A/F ratio be, what ratio would put your car in the danger zone, and finally whether or not the TPR intake/exhaust combo will cause your car to get anywhere near that zone? I think I remember 17:1 being bad and 12or13:1 being rich from doing a search.
 

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Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku
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Here are the AF readings from the TPR CAI vs stock and Injen comparison (incorrect AEM reading on chart :( ):



As you can see, TPR is much closer to stock than Injen (and definitely AEM even though not shown, since AEM still experiences bogging). You'll be much safer with the TPR CAI than with any other CAI out there (unless you're using the PFC), especially after adding an exhaust (and header).
 

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Originally posted by Blue Bomber
(incorrect AEM reading on chart :( ):
i still don't understand how you can disregard the "AEM" data when it comes to A/F, but inconsistently use the HP#s.

my opinion.. either don't mention the ebay intake in ANY comparison, HP or A/F. or if you want to use it, remain consistent: admitting that TPR made more HP down low and ebay also ran richer thruout (so it may be the safest CAI yet).

i hope you'll reply more than the usual captain bash accusation.
 

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Originally posted by SpeeedCelicaGTS
what happenws if you use a pfc?
that will depend on tuning. the problem with using the PFC in a comparison is that it wont act the same with 2 different parts.

perfect example - My power fc was tuned to MY car. When my fuel pump died and I replaced it the tuning no longer worked well.

now if you were to change intakes or exhausts and keep the same tuning you really can't predict what the outcome will be. you'd literally have to tune each combo seperately. even then you wont know if it's cause you tuned it better or if the car just likes it better.

also like blue said all cars are different. again I'll use my car cause it's a good example of lower dynos. stock 152whp 112wtq, AEM cai, no muffler 166 and 119, power fc added 183whp 135 wtq

I went from dynoing lower then most people to dynoing more then most with more tq then anyone else. why? dunno my car really liked the tuning. stuck it on another gts with the same setup ad it got less hp and less tq and knocked higher.

it's reallllllyy gonna be difficult to accurately compare gains with the power fc. no car will dyno correctly with different mods and the same tuning.
 

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Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku
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Originally posted by bagodoosh
i still don't understand how you can disregard the "AEM" data when it comes to A/F, but inconsistently use the HP#s.

my opinion.. either don't mention the ebay intake in ANY comparison, HP or A/F. or if you want to use it, remain consistent: admitting that TPR made more HP down low and ebay also ran richer thruout (so it may be the safest CAI yet).

i hope you'll reply more than the usual captain bash accusation.
Does this look like a normal dyno to you?

http://easyc.home.comcast.net/AEM-TPR.jpg

The reason EasyC used that dyno is because it had the highest peak power of all the "AEM" dyno runs.
 

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Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku
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Originally posted by EasyC
Doosh has all the AEM runs :) i sent him all the dyno files
So then I guess he just likes seeing himself type. :rolleyes: It'd be nice if he could find some new stuff to type about, though. ;)
 
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