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Discussion Starter #1
Looking for some semi-detailed info on why an Automatic Transmission is so much slower than a Manual Transmission.

From what I understand...
1) You lose power in the torque converter for the Automatic, right?
2) Weight -- Auto is heavier... but is it really that much?
3) Gearing -- However, looking at the torque curve for the GT-S, its fairly flat across all RPM's. The big jump really sits at lift. Is the big difference really that manuals can land in lift?

Could anyone go into depth there... or did I miss anything?

Screwy how buying a new car can make you into a born again enthusiast...


... and yes, I thought, hey, I live in DC, drive in DC, and traffic is a bitch and a half... Ill get an automatic and everythign will be fine with the sports-shift... then I dream... dream of something faster... more power... dream of sitting in lift for gear after gear with the feel of that accelleration pulling... then I stop and go... and stop... and go again... ugh...

Thank you,

J
 

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the time it takes to shift is usually slower as well. shift points are lower.
 

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Originally posted by jcambros
Looking for some semi-detailed info on why an Automatic Transmission is so much slower than a Manual Transmission.

From what I understand...
1) You lose power in the torque converter for the Automatic, right?
2) Weight -- Auto is heavier... but is it really that much?
3) Gearing -- However, looking at the torque curve for the GT-S, its fairly flat across all RPM's. The big jump really sits at lift. Is the big difference really that manuals can land in lift?

Could anyone go into depth there... or did I miss anything?

Screwy how buying a new car can make you into a born again enthusiast...


... and yes, I thought, hey, I live in DC, drive in DC, and traffic is a bitch and a half... Ill get an automatic and everythign will be fine with the sports-shift... then I dream... dream of something faster... more power... dream of sitting in lift for gear after gear with the feel of that accelleration pulling... then I stop and go... and stop... and go again... ugh...

Thank you,

J
welcome.

I was an auto GTS owner...in auto mode, the car totally blows...drive it in sportshift ALL the time, you'll feel that it moves quicker (but not much) because you can rev it up to the limiter, unlike when it's on auto mode.

The main problem with the auto in the GTS is that the 2ZZ is not a torquey engine, and in order for an auto not to be slow/feel slow, it needs torque.
 

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Under no circumstances are you to buy an auto GTS. They are a waste of a 2ZZ and should all be put out to pasture.



Jon
 

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i think the biggest thing wrong with the auto gts is the fact that its only a 4 speed. the gears are so damn tall that it takes forever to even get into the higher rpm range to make power.

and when you finally get up to the high rpm range, you have to shift which makes it go all the way back down around 5,000rpm.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Actually... 7.8 RPM ~= 45MPH in 1st for my auto
When I switch to 2nd, I sit right at ~4.0 RPMS and at 7.8 hit ~75 MPH

Still curious to hear if anyone has any technical answers to my questions above...

J
 

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Originally posted by jcambros
Actually... 7.8 RPM ~= 45MPH in 1st for my auto
When I switch to 2nd, I sit right at ~4.0 RPMS and at 7.8 hit ~75 MPH

Still curious to hear if anyone has any technical answers to my questions above...

J

It was answered.

The weight difference is only 40 lbs, and the tall gearing doesnt help.
 

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Originally posted by jcambros
Actually... 7.8 RPM ~= 45MPH in 1st for my auto
When I switch to 2nd, I sit right at ~4.0 RPMS and at 7.8 hit ~75 MPH

Still curious to hear if anyone has any technical answers to my questions above...

J
?? do you have a gt or something? when i shift at fuel cut off, its above 5k. and 2nd gear will take you well into the 80mph range.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I have an auto '02 GTS

I was wrong at the RPM's after shifting, it sits at 5K, not 4K. However, Im pretty sure it does ~75 tops in 2nd.

J
 

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I drove an Auto GT once. It sucked. An auto makes a 4 cylinder feel like a dog. Since the Auto GT one does the 1/4 mile in low 17s, it is a dog.
 

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I feel everyone's pain ... I too have a "manumatic" 00 GT-S. Even when using the sportshift and only shifting at redline the car is a bit sluggish off the line (especially at WOT, but curiously less so it seems on 1/2 throttle), and with only 4 gears to play with, staying in lift aint easy.

Yes, I think that the auto vs. manual question was answered in that it's a combination factors and it depends upon whether you are drivng in regular or "semi-auto": In regular auto, low preset shift points, an extra fraction of a sec for the gear to be selected by the slushbox, and a mere 4 gears makes our version of the GT-S relatively pokey compared to the manuals. In sportshift mode, you have control over the shift points, but the other limiting factors means we can't use the 2zzge's full potential in the way a manual can.

However, in theoy if we could replace the stock torque converter with one that has a higher stall speed, we might be able to extract a bit more responsiveness. I asked about this on another board and was directed to http://www.levelten.com/ , but they're in NJ, I'm in FL, and would rather get it done locally if at all possible.

Okay -- enough rambling; here's my point.

Fellow manumatic drivers unite! Somebody must know somebody (or several somebodies) in DC for jacmbros and FL for me who would be worth taking our business to for a performance tranny rebuild. While we're at it, is there any kind of a listing of reputable mechanics/speedshops NewCelica folks have used and can recommend for other mods? If not, sounds like a good idea for a forum. I know a lot of the guys here are DIY, and I totally respect that -- but if ya don't have the time or the tools, or it's a specialty type installation, ya need to take it to somebody who knows what they're doing. So ... does anyone know someone they trust, have used previously, etc... Is there an import aftermarket tq converter or tranny kit for newer Toyotas (or Lexus -- that would prob. work too)?

So ... anyboy got any recommendations (besides the obvious one of having our auto trans replaced with a six speed)?

-jl-
 
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