NewCelica.org Forum banner
61 - 80 of 109 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,169 Posts
Discussion Starter · #61 ·
What do you do for boost in closed loop J?
I just don't worry about it. Low comp pistons, 93 AKI fuel, intercooled and relatively low load suggest it's not a cause for concern.

I've never seen any evidence of knock on data logs under these conditons.

Besides, I'm only in those situations for a second or so here and there under moderate acceleration. Quick throttle inputs are covered by running a little rich on tip in (ECU does not tune out accelleration enrichment) and if I floor it I get into WOT quick enough.
 

·
Greddy Supercharged
Joined
·
865 Posts
I have yet to figure out what creates open loop. So far I have only been able to track it to a 3v (60% ECM) TPS signal. Nothing to do with MAF or nothing, not to sure if the corolla/matrix ecm is different then the celica unit but when I first installed the kit I could create over 5psi in closed loop. I would love to hear more information about it.

As for the autotune I am using it at 60% ECM TPS it is roughly 74% GReddy EMU so you should be able to set the autotune to come on then.



Just to clarify are you guys building any boost in closed loop? if so how are you preventing/coping with it.
Pic is too small, care to post it bigger?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
I've tried to load it bigger. I have no idea why it keeps shrinking. I think it is this stupid Picaso software that's loaded on my computer.
 

·
Greddy Supercharged
Joined
·
865 Posts
Damnit E10 gas... A lot of gas stations are starting to use it here. It makes my a/f change depending on where I fill gas. I wish I could make this a/f target thing work as a correction factor for this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
That's my experience with it as well -- but when I switched to celcius the changes were dramatic and scary :confused:

I never took the time to try and replicate that effect with it on F as a definitive test, so I took a cowardly leave-well-enough-alone approach and decided that it probably is working :shrugs:

But yeah, it definitely seems to steer itself more towards the target with the target map on rather than off :shrugs:
I think the EMU software is a bit flakey - what you should see if the AFR map is working is the INJ correction you have associtaed with it being populated with values. The easiest way to see this is to use both INJ maps, with your base tune in one and the other filled with zeros and assigned to the AF-target system.

Drive for a bit - and you should see your AFR's tend towards your targets. A 'compare maps' with what's now in the Emanage should now fail, as the maps should be different (updated) but the S/W is a bit flakey. What I find works better is to simply import what's on the EMU as a new map - the auto-generated values will be the only ones populated in that map you zeroed. If you like them, you can 'add-paste' them on top of your base map, and re-zero the other one for more fine-tuning.

Now having said all that, I've never been all that happy with the AF-target thing. I have a hunch that cruising in boost in closed loop tends to upset the ECU, and send its fuel trims hunting again, so despite having small single-digit fuel trims everywhere to start with, things get messed up :( But then again, my ECU isn't happy about idle, so I guess it's a little uppity anyway!
 

·
Greddy Supercharged
Joined
·
865 Posts
So, let me get this straight.

I.E if use greddys basemap (which i already modifie as a solid base tune) you mean what i could do is flip the switches and activate the second map (tha is originally intended for greddys airinx cai), and zero out that entire inj2 and set the a/f target to affect that one (inj 2). Im i getting you right?

Also, how would the a/f target function affect closed loop? Is advised by greddys manual to only set values in cells you know the ecu is in open loop as in closed loop it wont do anything (i set values only for 90-100% throttle)

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
For this feature you should be able to set your values for 70% Throttle. I am pretty sure the stock ECM goes into open loop at 60% TPS signal ~ 3v which are the same. I just made some changes on my map loaded it back in again. Coupled with the fact that we were in winter before and now had a sudden spring temperature increase all my car was running rich, like 10:1. Now after three days it is back up to the normal AF ratios. This is the equivelent of driving 60km.

As for the closed loop changes you are just going to skew your LTFT by having the GReddy make changes. Like JameX said the manual recommends strongly against doing that.

I am still using my TPS spoofer and it is working great for this application. So as soon as my pressure sensor sees boost it triggers an external relay and sends a modified TPS value to the ECM with an interpolated scale from 3v to I think 4v "ish". So I never boost in closed loop. I'm pretty sure this only works on mechanical throttle bodies and not drive by wire however.

I promise I will get around to making a how to for this soon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
For this feature you should be able to set your values for 70% Throttle. I am pretty sure the stock ECM goes into open loop at 60% TPS signal ~ 3v which are the same. I just made some changes on my map loaded it back in again. Coupled with the fact that we were in winter before and now had a sudden spring temperature increase all my car was running rich, like 10:1. Now after three days it is back up to the normal AF ratios. This is the equivelent of driving 60km.

As for the closed loop changes you are just going to skew your LTFT by having the GReddy make changes. Like JameX said the manual recommends strongly against doing that.

I am still using my TPS spoofer and it is working great for this application. So as soon as my pressure sensor sees boost it triggers an external relay and sends a modified TPS value to the ECM with an interpolated scale from 3v to I think 4v "ish". So I never boost in closed loop. I'm pretty sure this only works on mechanical throttle bodies and not drive by wire however.

I promise I will get around to making a how to for this soon.
I have my AF target map kicking at about 3.4v and > 2500rpm which is probably a bit low. However, I can quite easily hit boost at 4000 rpm in 5th/6th when the ECU seems to be quite happy running in closed loop. I find that even with AF-target off, I can go from great running at WOT to over-rich and slugglish after a couple hours of cruising and hitting boost when overtaking in 6th.

I guess I really need to go out and try to build a map of open and closed loop vs rpm & load at some point. Gotta fix my engine first though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
Do eet :thumbup:

Hesitation issues sorted? :hide:
Yup for the most part, no more stalling. My biggest issue before was my bum O2 sensor. After I changed that it was night and day. I have an exhaust leak I have to fix right now and I think my MAF is acting up when it's cold so I have to check for air leaks maybe. Because I have a rough idle when it's cold and it hesitates like crazy now for about four days. A realitivly new issue.
 

·
Greddy Supercharged
Joined
·
865 Posts
Oh yeah -- well, I'll have to see your datalogs but it might be worth going to the dyno and leaning it out a bit. More altitude means less cylinder pressure means less power means somewhat less prone to knock :wiggle:

Also, what settings are you using on the EMU to monitor knock? If pre-2002 I think you want resonant and "normal".

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=261787&highlight=resonant+knock
Yup, you were right. Before when I had it at the wrong settings of "non resonant" I would see spikes of knock as high as 100%

Did a few pulls across the band on "resonant" and "normal" and the highest spikes I would see were around 43% in high load (lift). So I would guess being lower than 60% that is "normal" noise or "supercharger noise" right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
Hey JameX why are you using the MAF to tune with? In my honest opinion getting a boost sensor or using the TPS is a much better system. The roots blower is positive displacement pump, so in theory at any given RPM point at a given TPS the boost should be the same.

There are too many variables with the MAF.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
I think I am going to set up the AF target map to 14.7 in all the closed loop cells and drive around to see if it will slowly adjust those cells. Then every once in awhile I will reset the EFI to let it try again.
 

·
Greddy Supercharged
Joined
·
865 Posts
I think I am going to set up the AF target map to 14.7 in all the closed loop cells and drive around to see if it will slowly adjust those cells. Then every once in awhile I will reset the EFI to let it try again.
Sounds good. Keep us updated. Hopefully Greddy is wrong and it also works in closed loop.

On another topic, just got a Windows 7 64bit new netbook and it wouldn't install the ultimate drivers. Thank god for Virtual WinXP mode. Did install and worked fine in it. So if anybody has any trouble, just do it in virtual win xp mode, as long as your hardware supports virtualization. Just FYI.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
Sounds good. Keep us updated. Hopefully Greddy is wrong and it also works in closed loop.

On another topic, just got a Windows 7 64bit new netbook and it wouldn't install the ultimate drivers. Thank god for Virtual WinXP mode. Did install and worked fine in it. So if anybody has any trouble, just do it in virtual win xp mode, as long as your hardware supports virtualization. Just FYI.
The only reason GReddy says not to do it is because the LTFT will overwrite it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,169 Posts
Discussion Starter · #79 ·
The only reason GReddy says not to do it is because the LTFT will overwrite it.
In theory, if you set it at 14.7, it should work, BUT, when I tried it, I occasionally had weird hesitation issues.

Probably it was screwing up tip-in enrichment. ECU fuel trims don't affect that, but the target map will depending on how rapid the feedback is set.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
well going to have to see what happened. Have bigger fish to fry now, I'm down compression on one cylinder. Oil test leads me to believe it's the rings.
 
61 - 80 of 109 Posts
Top