Ok...... what is the pros and cons of a Turbo charger and a supercharger, Major differences between the two (besides the obvious) and recommended use.
Turbo or Supercharged?
gtsforme
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read the turbo & supercharger FAQ sticky.
^^ this
I read the sticky...... the question I really meant to ask was the differences beween the two from actual people that have them installed. I know the technical differences between a turbo and a supercharger I just want opinions from people that have them installed. I am about ready to spend alot of hard earned money to go F/I and I want some actual feed back about both items before I decide which route to go. Thank you for help.
Im not F/I but from what ive heard...
If you want dependable power all through the band, top to bottom, more daily driver reliable go with a Supercharger. Makes less HP then a Turbo (with the right build), but way more reliable on a DD.
I have seen a lot of big numbers coming from the Turbo side. Also could be reliable with a safe build but more of a weekend warrior thing then a DD.
? right?
If you want dependable power all through the band, top to bottom, more daily driver reliable go with a Supercharger. Makes less HP then a Turbo (with the right build), but way more reliable on a DD.
I have seen a lot of big numbers coming from the Turbo side. Also could be reliable with a safe build but more of a weekend warrior thing then a DD.
? right?
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supercharger is also easyier to install 
no taking of axel's etc
no taking of axel's etcWill take into consideration. My car is a DD and has to be dependable...... if I don't make it to work on time it's pretty much a crime lol (I'm in the military)
A smaller ball bearing turbo that spools quickly in the low range will give just as good power as a supercharger and outperform a supercharger in the high range
You also have more room to move to higher power levels with a turbo, your extremely limited with a supercharger (this is of course referring to the mp62 greddy, the rotrex is a whole different beast)
You also have more room to move to higher power levels with a turbo, your extremely limited with a supercharger (this is of course referring to the mp62 greddy, the rotrex is a whole different beast)
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blowers don't belong on small displacement engines. They are always slow...
Food for thought: Top end aside, the car will only feel (and be) faster while in boost. Keep that in mind, and take a look at this nifty graphical display.
![Image]()
Of course, individual results may vary, but these curves should give you an idea of (approximately) how quickly you get into boost for each type of FI.
Other pros and cons: For that you have to look at cost, ease of installation, etc. for each specific set up. And there's always extra costs (wideband O2, injectors, tuning, etc) not always included ina given kit (and many "kits" are rally about 2/3 of an essentially custom set up you will need to complete).
In general, going FI on a NA motor aint cheap, and either the OEM pistons or trans may fail long before you ever hit your desired power goals...
Best bet is to review the various SC and turbo FAQ's, recent threads on people's projects (and their sucesses and failures), reported dynos, etc. and take your time to decide what exactly you want.
Of course, individual results may vary, but these curves should give you an idea of (approximately) how quickly you get into boost for each type of FI.
Other pros and cons: For that you have to look at cost, ease of installation, etc. for each specific set up. And there's always extra costs (wideband O2, injectors, tuning, etc) not always included ina given kit (and many "kits" are rally about 2/3 of an essentially custom set up you will need to complete).
In general, going FI on a NA motor aint cheap, and either the OEM pistons or trans may fail long before you ever hit your desired power goals...
Best bet is to review the various SC and turbo FAQ's, recent threads on people's projects (and their sucesses and failures), reported dynos, etc. and take your time to decide what exactly you want.
Your ignorance never ceases to amaze me...
TVS Supercharger: http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f160/next-generation-supercharging-means-275whp-64669/
Single Post: http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/1259190-post1093.html
I just got back from the DynoJet - gotta love having the day off!
I FINALLY got my baseline TVS dyno in...
The dyno guy had an issue with both the tailpipe wideband O2 blowing out and the RPM pickup not working... it took 4 runs to get a clean one... and all were done within 13 minutes of each other with the car running: 11:24am, 11:31am, 11:35am and 11:37am. Indicated dash water temperature never exceeded 185 degrees. All I wanted was a baseline - Phil was out of town anyway
Results are below in the 4 attachments...
1) First picture is the best (and only complete) dyno run: 283.77 whp and 183.84 wlb-ft. That's 322 hp and 209 lb-ft at the flywheel.
2) Second are three of the partial runs overlaid (run #3 was aborted early and not displayed). Best numbers for all three are: 286.4 whp and 186.50 wlb-ft. That's 325 hp and 212 lb-ft at the flywheel. I think I'll PM Wayne for a Lotus Sport 330R decal for the manifold
3) Third is my best TVS dyno vs. my best M62 Katana dyno vs. my bone stock dyno. Pretty dramatic.
4) Lastly is a zipped .DRF file of the dynos in the third picture if anyone wants to download it and view/compare them with the WinPep software.
Enjoy!
Woohoo!
And here's this guy's website:Fine!
Mods related to power...
- BOE TVS supercharger kit (90mm pulley & 550cc injectors)
- EFI standalone with a baseline BOE tune
- Forcedfed street header + decat pipe
- AreaP 2.5" straight through exhaust
- MaxBore +4mm throttle body
- TurboXS intake (map pipe removed - not needed)
- Fidanza flywheel
- ACT XTSS clutch
- Stock NGK spark plugs
- Stock 160lph fuel pump (will be upgraded soon)
- Unopened 2ZZGE engine
That's all I can think of... simple bolt-ons, really.
http://www.drjanestewart.com/darksol/showcase.html
Bolt on, non-intercooled supercharger turned a mid 13 second car to a mid 11 second car...
In any case, it's all about the OP's preferences. Superchargers will require less maintenance and things to look out for in the long run, which seems to be what he's looking for.
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hold the mother fvcking presses SUB 300whp...Holy Sh!t, you're so right, those are impressive numbers. You sure proved me wrong this time
MemphizStylez is actually right. I've been in a GT-S with a Greddy supercharger. It was really fvcking slow. It takes forever to build boost. You're basically getting about 5 psi at 4500 rpm. Yay :jerkoff: The car was also loud as hell (S/C cars are much louder than N/A).
Any turbo will walk all over a supercharged Celica any day. The whole lag thing is a load of crap. You don't want lag, use a smaller turbo. You don't need to use a basketball-sized turbo like Smaay and get in an internet shootout for peak hp.
That said, the real answer is that you should do neither. You should buy a car that already has a turbo like an EVO 9. Unless you're a wizard at tuning, which I'm willing to bet you aren't, you're going to be disappointed with the results because your car won't run right and you'll have no clue what to do. We get probably two threads a week on this topic. The current ones are Soon2beriding and xmrTRDx. Neither of their cars are working and they don't have the first clue about what to do do remedy the problem.
Any turbo will walk all over a supercharged Celica any day. The whole lag thing is a load of crap. You don't want lag, use a smaller turbo. You don't need to use a basketball-sized turbo like Smaay and get in an internet shootout for peak hp.
That said, the real answer is that you should do neither. You should buy a car that already has a turbo like an EVO 9. Unless you're a wizard at tuning, which I'm willing to bet you aren't, you're going to be disappointed with the results because your car won't run right and you'll have no clue what to do. We get probably two threads a week on this topic. The current ones are Soon2beriding and xmrTRDx. Neither of their cars are working and they don't have the first clue about what to do do remedy the problem.
Well considering this next generation of TVS superchargers is making 280+ whp off 10 psi, off the standalone ECU basemap, on a stock motor...I don't know what else there is to say.
Whether turbo's or superchargers must make his car "fast" is less of a concern as to whether it's reliable or not, which means he is looking for power around the power levels that our crap-tacular 6 speed gear box can handle, along with the even weaker stock pistons. What does that mean? No Garrett GT30-GT35 kits for him. Too much building and investing to reliably (relatively speaking) run a "fast" setup like that.
What this leaves are the entry level turbo and supercharger kits for the OP to choose from for the Celica that the stock tranny and pistons can handle (even though forged Mahle drop in stock compression pistons are available for purchase now). And lookey...this new generation TVS style supercharger is making more power at 10 psi of boost than any of the other FI options, and it's generously priced without engine management and injectors should anybody PM turbophil for the cost. In fact, by the time you add the PFC, datalogit, and injectors, you'll still basically be around the turbokits.com and monkewrench racing Garret GT28 series turbo kit price range with the PFC.
Also, "Slow" is subjective to what's realistic for a car, and what the car can handle, assuming we are just talking about going in a straight line. A giant leap to turn our 15 second cars to 10-11 second cars is wayyy more costly in setting the car up for that type of power than turning out cars into streetable 12 second cars, which could be possible with that new generation of supercharger on the stock motor, or even as someone on youtube demonstrated with a low trap speed, boltons and a 75 shot with slicks running on the stock ECU (obviously not 12 seconds on the street).
In any case, you guys be the judge. Here's a youtube video of a TVS supercharged Lotus chasing down a turbocharged Lotus with a better driver, less hp, but more torque: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQqwsLBlauE .
IMO, "Fast" is cool only when the weak links of your car can stay together...at least in our car.
Whether turbo's or superchargers must make his car "fast" is less of a concern as to whether it's reliable or not, which means he is looking for power around the power levels that our crap-tacular 6 speed gear box can handle, along with the even weaker stock pistons. What does that mean? No Garrett GT30-GT35 kits for him. Too much building and investing to reliably (relatively speaking) run a "fast" setup like that.
What this leaves are the entry level turbo and supercharger kits for the OP to choose from for the Celica that the stock tranny and pistons can handle (even though forged Mahle drop in stock compression pistons are available for purchase now). And lookey...this new generation TVS style supercharger is making more power at 10 psi of boost than any of the other FI options, and it's generously priced without engine management and injectors should anybody PM turbophil for the cost. In fact, by the time you add the PFC, datalogit, and injectors, you'll still basically be around the turbokits.com and monkewrench racing Garret GT28 series turbo kit price range with the PFC.
Also, "Slow" is subjective to what's realistic for a car, and what the car can handle, assuming we are just talking about going in a straight line. A giant leap to turn our 15 second cars to 10-11 second cars is wayyy more costly in setting the car up for that type of power than turning out cars into streetable 12 second cars, which could be possible with that new generation of supercharger on the stock motor, or even as someone on youtube demonstrated with a low trap speed, boltons and a 75 shot with slicks running on the stock ECU (obviously not 12 seconds on the street).
In any case, you guys be the judge. Here's a youtube video of a TVS supercharged Lotus chasing down a turbocharged Lotus with a better driver, less hp, but more torque: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQqwsLBlauE .
IMO, "Fast" is cool only when the weak links of your car can stay together...at least in our car.
Fact: all centrifugal superchargers take a long time to build boost
Fact: superchargers are no more reliable than turbochargers (in fact, given all the failures with various Greddy parts, I'd say less)
The peak hp on these kits is irrelevant. I could give a crap what it does if you wring the piss out of the motor. The fact is that for 280 whp (peak), I could build a turbo car that is making full boost by 3500 rpm and will absolutely blow the supercharger out of the water through the midrange. This will be a much faster car in all situations, particularly on the street (which is where 99.9% of your driving is done).
Track times are also completely irrelevant because you're talking about operating the engine in a very narrow range around it's peak power point. That is why N/A cars car turn in respectable track times despite have torqueless, peaky powerbands. MemphizStyez is absolutely right: putting a supercharger on a small-displacement engine is stupid. The only reason people continue to do it is because of the continuing myth that is perpetuated that they're more reliable.
The Greddy kit has had any number of issues with bracket failures, bypass valve issues, etc. The typical part that fails on a turbo kit is the manifold. Beyond that it comes down to tuning, which sucks whatever way you go. If people want reliable, they shouldn't turbocharge or supercharge a Celica if they can't tune the car themselves.
Fact: superchargers are no more reliable than turbochargers (in fact, given all the failures with various Greddy parts, I'd say less)
The peak hp on these kits is irrelevant. I could give a crap what it does if you wring the piss out of the motor. The fact is that for 280 whp (peak), I could build a turbo car that is making full boost by 3500 rpm and will absolutely blow the supercharger out of the water through the midrange. This will be a much faster car in all situations, particularly on the street (which is where 99.9% of your driving is done).
Track times are also completely irrelevant because you're talking about operating the engine in a very narrow range around it's peak power point. That is why N/A cars car turn in respectable track times despite have torqueless, peaky powerbands. MemphizStyez is absolutely right: putting a supercharger on a small-displacement engine is stupid. The only reason people continue to do it is because of the continuing myth that is perpetuated that they're more reliable.
The Greddy kit has had any number of issues with bracket failures, bypass valve issues, etc. The typical part that fails on a turbo kit is the manifold. Beyond that it comes down to tuning, which sucks whatever way you go. If people want reliable, they shouldn't turbocharge or supercharge a Celica if they can't tune the car themselves.
^^I'm not a retard, this isn't my first car, I know what's going on and I have all the necessary help and tools to tune my own car. So, that's not the problem. I don't want this thread blowing out of fvcking proportion. I realize a lot of people probably post questions asking about turbos and superchargers and the like but I just wanted every piece of advice I could get before I embark on this endeavor. Thank you to the guys that have had some truly informative posts for me.
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