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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On the coilovers I just put on it doesn't matter if you have it fully dropped or not as soon as you lower the car down the helper spring is fully compressed and basically forms a solid block. What is the deal with that? If it is just going to add to the perch like that then why not just have a bigger perch or an aluminum spacer or something? I just don't see the point of it if it is going to be fully compressed. How does this help anything?
 

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It's just there to keep the main spring seated in the perches. I can show you where the threads are ground off of my adjustment collars from a spring rattling around when the suspension is unloaded.

If you have 3" of shock shaft extending above the unloaded main spring you *could* add a 3" aluminum block, however that would increase the ride height by 3". Instead, the helper spring setup increases the ride height by about 0.5 to 1" and accomplishes the same goal.

Of course the helpwer spring will still work if you switch from a 7" long 500 lb spring to a 6" long 600 lb spring, but the aluminum spacer will then be 1" too short.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
^^^Scott, is the helper spring supposed to be fully compressed with the car on the ground? I was always told the helper spring was there to make adjustment easier and the ride a little more comfy by having the suspension compression gradually go through the soft spring first then slowly over to the bigger spring with the higher rate. This to my understanding was supposed to eliminate some of the harshness of the ride. However, if the helper spring is so weak that is is fully compressed with all coils touching each other I don't see how it could be helping anything at all. It sure as hell doesn't make the ride any softer this way, so I don't get it. It seems to me like it would be more logical to do the set-up more conventional-like, get rid of the helper spring and make the main spring a little longer to make up the difference.

Also, I don't have 3 inches of thread for adjustment above the main spring. All I have is 3 inches of actual threaded area period unless that is I am not understanding what you are saying here.
 

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I read through some of your posts and I have to apologize and say I'm sorry for your hard luck, for lack of a worse term.

All I can tell you is that the helper spring should not be fully compressed while the car is at rest. It's to make things more linear, yet comfy, amongst other things.

Also, about the endlinks, I can tell you how to set them up. It's a pain. So...

You need to take the car to a shop and have them do it while they do an alignment and corner weight and balance. Much easier for them than you and they shouldn't charge you anything or almost nothing.

Good luck at getting the coilovers right. That's the first thing.

If you don't plan on getting these coilovers corner weighted and balanced and every thing set with the alignment (even if you are not sure on that). There is no need for them.
 

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Actually a Helper spring should be fully compressed, it's function is to keep the short main spring where it belongs, nothing more.

A Tender spring will offer a progressive rate.

There is a difference between the two, it might be worth browsing the Eibach to see what is out there.

My random 3" reference is to the space that would be there if the tender spring were not present. That spring must take up a few inches of space when the shock is fully unloaded, no? if you used a simple spacer it would increase the ride height by the length of the spacer, a tender spring takes up that space but doesn't effect the ride height as much.

Another way of looking at it...

If you used a spacer, can you lower the adjusting collar another 3"? If not, then you would be SOL.

Scott
 

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I must have read the post wrong or misuderstood. Dope was implying that the spring was fully compressed "forms a solid block" also coils touching.

I don't see how this is possible without a bad install because it's not correct ever.

You lost me a bit autxr, but a helper spring on these type of coilovers shouldn't be maxed compressed at rest their function is to add the main spring in order for proper travel and linear operation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Ok so I am lost. Is it supposed to be fully compressed or not? This was not a bad install. What is there to misinstall? The front struts, adjustment collars, helper spring, main spring, and camber plates etc. were already preassembled and torqued to spec before I ever received them. Now as to the install of the front which is where I was at when I noticed the helper spring was fully compressed. There isn't much to installing it. You jack up the car, take the wheels off, unbolt the brake line from the strut and out it aside, unbolt the endlinks, loosen bottom to bolts of stut that connects toe the knuckle, undo ot unbolt the top three nuts at the top of the strut tower, then finish unbolting the bottom two, and voila you are done, the whole assembly will slide out at this point or if you are not careful, fall out. Now I recommed supporting the suspension once the strut is removed, but other than that you are done, just install in the reverse order more or less.

Now please tell me how any of that would have anything to do with the helper spring being fully compressed. There is nothing to screw up. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the helper spring was not the right rate, in other words they gave me the incorrect spring. However, I find this hard to believe since all 4 corners are the same which would mean that they would have to have given me 4 bad helper springs. I don't think that is likely. So, with what I just said, are they supposed to be fully compressed or not? Either way it has nothing to do with my install. I even had a mechanic friend come over tonight and double check everything.

This should end all of the confusion:

Coilovers have a reputation for having a harsh ride. This is usually down to the stiffness of springs that are supplied. With coilovers being primarily designed for track use, the poundage of the springs is usually much harder than normal lowering springs, however there is a massive range of springs that fit coilovers, all with the same internal diameter but differing in poundage (stiffness) and length. This enables ultra fine tuning of both the ride height and stiffness of the car, so you can fit harder springs to match your driving style or shorter ones to lower the car further. As described above, fitting much shorter springs can lead to them dislocating from the spring platforms when the car is raised. There is a solution to this when using coilovers. Helper springs are flat section springs that are very soft in poundage and are used to support the main spring when the damper (shock) body is extended. When the car is lowered again and the damper compresses, the helper spring is squashed flat and the main spring operates as normal.

Excerpt taken from this site:

http://www.fiestaturbo.com/articles/suspension/


However, I have read over several explanations of this on several different websites.

Mr. AutoXr is 100% correct!


The true purpose of the helper spring is only to keep the main spring somewhat compressed when the shock is fully extended. This keeps the min spring seated properly during this short extension of time or when the car is on a lift. As soon as the vehicle is on the ground again the helper spring is compressed flat. I would imagine that on a progressive type coilover system that incorporated the helper spring the helper spring might slowly get stiffer due to compression before switching over to the main spring. Using that type of progressive set-up I could see how the helper spring might not fully compress and at the same time add to ride comfort. However, for most coilovers out there of the linear type that use helper springs the helper spring will be fully compressed when the car is on the ground. Later and thanks for all of the help guys.

Justin
 

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As I said, I must have read it wrong. I quoted you.

I'm glad you posted up the install that wasn't written by you in bold to prove me wrong and about coilovers.

You obviously had problems as others were complaining and you couldn't get the camber plates straight which is simple common sense.

You had TRD coilovers that plagued you only.

I am happy that you got things together with everything aside.

Good luck with them and on the settings up also. Trial and error on that.

I do wish you the best of luck. If anyone, you do deserve it with the previous problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thor said:
As I said, I must have read it wrong. I quoted you.

I'm glad you posted up the install that wasn't written by you in bold to prove me wrong and about coilovers.

You obviously had problems as others were complaining and you couldn't get the camber plates straight which is simple common sense.

You had TRD coilovers that plagued you only.

I am happy that you got things together with everything aside.

Good luck with them and on the settings up also. Trial and error on that.

I do wish you the best of luck. If anyone, you do deserve it with the previous problems.

Dude, I thank you for the best of luck. However, just to correct you I am not the only one that has been plagued by the TRD coilovers. Do a simple search and read a good bit and you will find that out. The difference was most people did not complain as much as I did. As far as the install directions goes, I did not post that up from somewhere else. I typed that out as I was thinking. It is freaking common sense so don't go thinking I just copied and pasted someone else's install. It may appear to be the same because you have to go through the same steps to remove and install them no matter who you are. I have done this many times before. Have you read how many sets of coilovers I have had, not including the sets of springs before that????? Do you think I paid someone to do that everytime? If I had paid someone to put on every set-up I have had I would have had more money in suspension and install than the car is worth. As far as the camber plates were concerned I explained why I was having trouble with those and as I said earlier it was because I thought you were not supposed to spin the shaft, again I had many people tell me that but it was a misunderstanding pointed out by MANY. Those people that told me that meant not to tighten the top nut with air tools thereby spinning the shaft at a ridiculous RPM because if you do that, yes it will screw them up. As I said a misunderstanding. Once I knew that I could turn these and not screw them up, the install was all downhill. I still have yet to figure out why you think I am some kind of an idiot just for that. You really can't **** up an install like this as you would like to have so many beleive. It is as simple as taking **** off and replacing it just like it was, not hard at all. In fact, anyone with any common sense could do this. However, again thanks for the luck. I am sure the tune of things will go just fine. Later.
 
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