very clever. The ES bushings also help a little I have heard but I never tried them, I just replaced the bar.

 

3. Then wrap the anti roll bar against the rear suspension with a tie-wrap (see pic2)

Won't that eventually snap, tho'? :shrugs:

 

that’s just temporary to hold the bar while drilling holes ! u cut it off later on ( i should add that to the guide maybey )
(the last pic shows it all connected again in the new hole the tie-wrap dissapeared cut off )

 

I think he was talking about putting added stress on the bar by changing the mount point, it's not designed for that and may eventually crack bend or break.

 

the bar itself is verry tough, i found out while drilling the hole's in it gave me some extra trust in toyota steel. i am not that afraid it will snap / break.

can you Clarify yourselve further jlitman ?
or maybey a other forum member with some more knowlegde about vehicle dynamics can awnser on the probebility. i dont think its such a massive increase of stress on the component

in time you will know the durabilety of this mod hehe i gonne keep it this way !
but i dont worry about it, and even if it should snap no worry's it isnt a critical component u can drive without one and get it replaced

also not too much difference compered to origninal setup ---> http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6793/origineelbarsml.jpg

 

it shouldn't break, its the same idea behind the adjustable hotchkis bar. not sure how much more stiffer it gets but the price is right. good idea and mod.

 

good idea and mod.

:werd: I'm surprised this hasn't been posted/done much sooner before now.

 

think of it this way, he moved the holes further inside. it can't weaken the ARB because its not between the stress points.

 

That's a great idea!

Even if the stock sway bar breaks after a while...you can easily buy another one on here for cheap

 

i highly doubt the oem bar will break, things are fvcken solid

 

yes they are massive and strong :bang:
i got the idea to do the back because i wanted to emliminated some more understeer.
someone posted a link here on the forum of somebody who did this too the front but the link was dead. but i know it could be done so i did the back

will this become a install guide in Suspension / Brakes ? ^^ i already posted it i geuss its waithing for approval

and for those who havn't seen my car in action yet, here it is on the nurburgring nordschleife http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hLQtSZZ7JM&fmt=18

 

Sabine did the nurburgringin under 10min in a Transit van on Top Gear(UK TV show).

 

No she said she could do it under 10 minutes in a van. But she never really managed. then she lost all extra weight in the van still didnt manage then she had a doge viper drive in front of her to kill the drag and she still just didnt manage to get under the 10 minutes. just by a few seconds. :gap: (her best with the van was 10min08sec)

i did it well under 10 minutes, 9min22sec i assure you thats pretty good for a 143 HP celica with some traffic(little) on the track, and a yellow flag situation in the end where i lose 6 seconds of my laptime(compared the loss to another lap i did on video). and its just the 12th lap ever i drove there

 

i may try this, is there enough room to do the front bar like this as well?

 

i think so, but i think you will just get more understeer. just doing the back feels great car feels more stable turns in better the limit is higher. easyer to make it oversteer. The handling just feels better.

update: i just checked it seems possible but the spacebetween the hole's needs to be bigger.
i couldn't see everything with my wheels still on in the front you still should check if there is enough space for the suspension to move when u change it i can't see all the construstion in the front. but i recommand to do the back only if you want a better handling car (and then i am talking about racing performance not that it just feels better)

 

Anyone have tips on removing those endlinks. I remember years ago when I changed to the TRD sways, the toughest part was to get the bolt off the link. I had to vise grip the inside and result, caused some damage to the bushing.

 

put a wrench on it. Not a socket. Then put a allen key in the middle to hold the center still and use the wrench to loosen the nut.

 

Such a nice idea! Now give me that 100V drill!

Question though : Thicker vs. Higher sway bar. Which will perform more? And it's true, you don't have to run a sway bar haha. What if you took out the front sway bar & left the OEM rear? Will that give you some oversteer?

 

What if you took out the front sway bar & left the OEM rear? Will that give you some oversteer?

yes sir.

 

But will you still get that nasty body roll at the front with a racing suspension set-up - sway bars?

Like, what exactly are you tossing away when removing the front OEM sway bar (no more understeer)? etc..

 

But will you still get that nasty body roll at the front with a racing suspension set-up - sway bars?
.

I'd try that at your next autocross.

Stiffer springs and a lower CG have some anti-roll properties. I remember you said you have some traction issues last time out.
I have a stock sway/spring setup and sometimes disconnect the front bar (just remove one endlink) and it really helps put the power down on tight courses.
At the expense of some camber control.



Just don't roll the whole car.

dB

 

just don't plan on reusing them if they're old. they're not that costly to replace anyways. grind them off, torch them, whatever. moog sway links if available are the tits, greaseable, built tougher than stock, all metal sockets, and provisions for removing them easily later like a hex on the shaft outside the boot to grab onto. more often than not that hex key hole gets rusted and just doesnt hold up.

 

---SK---

That, sir, was an outstanding lap. I've been myself, lapped it slower in a 190 and i know the kind of commitment and skill that went into that lap. I salute you!

:bowdown:

PS next time i go back, i'll make sure i have working brakes... boiling the brake fluid 3-4mins into first lap was very scary and spoilt my times all weekend

 

thank you very much for you kind words. Not so much people respect such a lap in a 143 HP Celica. It was just my 12th lap ever but i must tell you ive practiced on a pc racesim's like rFactor / GT-Evolution.
Here u can watch me practice on the Nordschleife + the F1 track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNZMcfQtFnY&fmt=18

 

Wow that's some massive body roll.

Well I'm running on GC-type springs on AGX's & stock sways. So I guess I could try disconnecting the front sway bar at the next Autox. I was also running lighter wheels at the front.

 

Interesting. Sounds like a very good idea, but I'm already very concered about how tail happy my car will be with essentially zero weight over the rear wheels, so I'll hold off doing this mod until I've gotten used to the current set up and if I can handle any more turn-in...

 

Definitely autocross only.
Street/road course, no.

I think of it as a poor mans LSD.

Ideally I'd use a less effective front sway bar, not completely removed. I considered the redrilling idea, but I don't think there is enough metal toward the end of the blade on the front bar.

I think I cured my tail happiness by splitting the friction material front to back. I hadn't realized the light rear had been locking up early even in straight line braking. Anyone willing to install an adjustable proportioning valve will have more control over this VS. swapping brake pads.
dB

 

Just bought myself a MOOG rear sway link.. $40 cdn ... looks pretty good, made in Japan. I cheaped out and did not buy both sides... :S hope I'm not looking for trouble

 

Wow, it's been awhile since people starting doing this mod. How many of you have done this, and how has it held up. I really want to do something to stiffen up the back end.

 

I did this on my old GT and it really works.
Long as you do it right it will last forever

 

yes mine is still perfect and has done about 50 quick laps on the nurburgring nordschleife

This type of mod really isn't unusual, especially for autocross cars. In the 70's and 80's there weren't a lot of performance parts available for your average daily driver car. My Dad used to talk about the guys on tight budgets used to drill holes in sway bars and cut dead coils off of springs all the time.

The main advantage of an aftermarket sway bar over a mod like the ability to use a lighter/stronger material with a hollow bar design to save weight while still increasing stiffness. This will work just fine for anyone wanting a slightly stiffer rear without spending anything.

Honestly though the biggest adjustment for oversteer vs understeer is going to be adjusting the pressures of your tires front and rear. Running a higher pressure in the front and a lower pressure in the rear will giver you quite a bit of lift off oversteer on a stock suspension.

Awesome, I'm glad to hear that they are still strong! I haven't drilled much before, so is there a special kind of drill you need?

 

yes mine is still perfect and has done about 50 quick laps on the nurburgring nordschleife

 

This type of mod really isn't unusual, especially for autocross cars. In the 70's and 80's there weren't a lot of performance parts available for your average daily driver car. My Dad used to talk about the guys on tight budgets used to drill holes in sway bars and cut dead coils off of springs all the time.

The main advantage of an aftermarket sway bar over a mod like the ability to use a lighter/stronger material with a hollow bar design to save weight while still increasing stiffness. This will work just fine for anyone wanting a slightly stiffer rear without spending anything.

Honestly though the biggest adjustment for oversteer vs understeer is going to be adjusting the pressures of your tires front and rear. Running a higher pressure in the front and a lower pressure in the rear will giver you quite a bit of lift off oversteer on a stock suspension.

 

^ not only that. they stiffer the rear suspension is and the softer the front will do the same. not always good though, because then the ass end will kick out when you dont want it to so its a balancing act. Can also do the same with a wider tire up front and a skinnier one in the rear