Ok...... what is the pros and cons of a Turbo charger and a supercharger, Major differences between the two (besides the obvious) and recommended use.
gtsforme
I read the sticky...... the question I really meant to ask was the differences beween the two from actual people that have them installed. I know the technical differences between a turbo and a supercharger I just want opinions from people that have them installed. I am about ready to spend alot of hard earned money to go F/I and I want some actual feed back about both items before I decide which route to go. Thank you for help.
Im not F/I but from what ive heard...
If you want dependable power all through the band, top to bottom, more daily driver reliable go with a Supercharger. Makes less HP then a Turbo (with the right build), but way more reliable on a DD.
I have seen a lot of big numbers coming from the Turbo side. Also could be reliable with a safe build but more of a weekend warrior thing then a DD.
? right?
If you want dependable power all through the band, top to bottom, more daily driver reliable go with a Supercharger. Makes less HP then a Turbo (with the right build), but way more reliable on a DD.
I have seen a lot of big numbers coming from the Turbo side. Also could be reliable with a safe build but more of a weekend warrior thing then a DD.
? right?
no taking of axel's etcA smaller ball bearing turbo that spools quickly in the low range will give just as good power as a supercharger and outperform a supercharger in the high range
You also have more room to move to higher power levels with a turbo, your extremely limited with a supercharger (this is of course referring to the mp62 greddy, the rotrex is a whole different beast)
You also have more room to move to higher power levels with a turbo, your extremely limited with a supercharger (this is of course referring to the mp62 greddy, the rotrex is a whole different beast)
Food for thought: Top end aside, the car will only feel (and be) faster while in boost. Keep that in mind, and take a look at this nifty graphical display.
![Image]()
Of course, individual results may vary, but these curves should give you an idea of (approximately) how quickly you get into boost for each type of FI.
Other pros and cons: For that you have to look at cost, ease of installation, etc. for each specific set up. And there's always extra costs (wideband O2, injectors, tuning, etc) not always included ina given kit (and many "kits" are rally about 2/3 of an essentially custom set up you will need to complete).
In general, going FI on a NA motor aint cheap, and either the OEM pistons or trans may fail long before you ever hit your desired power goals...
Best bet is to review the various SC and turbo FAQ's, recent threads on people's projects (and their sucesses and failures), reported dynos, etc. and take your time to decide what exactly you want.
Of course, individual results may vary, but these curves should give you an idea of (approximately) how quickly you get into boost for each type of FI.
Other pros and cons: For that you have to look at cost, ease of installation, etc. for each specific set up. And there's always extra costs (wideband O2, injectors, tuning, etc) not always included ina given kit (and many "kits" are rally about 2/3 of an essentially custom set up you will need to complete).
In general, going FI on a NA motor aint cheap, and either the OEM pistons or trans may fail long before you ever hit your desired power goals...
Best bet is to review the various SC and turbo FAQ's, recent threads on people's projects (and their sucesses and failures), reported dynos, etc. and take your time to decide what exactly you want.
MemphizStylez is actually right. I've been in a GT-S with a Greddy supercharger. It was really fvcking slow. It takes forever to build boost. You're basically getting about 5 psi at 4500 rpm. Yay :jerkoff: The car was also loud as hell (S/C cars are much louder than N/A).
Any turbo will walk all over a supercharged Celica any day. The whole lag thing is a load of crap. You don't want lag, use a smaller turbo. You don't need to use a basketball-sized turbo like Smaay and get in an internet shootout for peak hp.
That said, the real answer is that you should do neither. You should buy a car that already has a turbo like an EVO 9. Unless you're a wizard at tuning, which I'm willing to bet you aren't, you're going to be disappointed with the results because your car won't run right and you'll have no clue what to do. We get probably two threads a week on this topic. The current ones are Soon2beriding and xmrTRDx. Neither of their cars are working and they don't have the first clue about what to do do remedy the problem.
Any turbo will walk all over a supercharged Celica any day. The whole lag thing is a load of crap. You don't want lag, use a smaller turbo. You don't need to use a basketball-sized turbo like Smaay and get in an internet shootout for peak hp.
That said, the real answer is that you should do neither. You should buy a car that already has a turbo like an EVO 9. Unless you're a wizard at tuning, which I'm willing to bet you aren't, you're going to be disappointed with the results because your car won't run right and you'll have no clue what to do. We get probably two threads a week on this topic. The current ones are Soon2beriding and xmrTRDx. Neither of their cars are working and they don't have the first clue about what to do do remedy the problem.
Well considering this next generation of TVS superchargers is making 280+ whp off 10 psi, off the standalone ECU basemap, on a stock motor...I don't know what else there is to say.
Whether turbo's or superchargers must make his car "fast" is less of a concern as to whether it's reliable or not, which means he is looking for power around the power levels that our crap-tacular 6 speed gear box can handle, along with the even weaker stock pistons. What does that mean? No Garrett GT30-GT35 kits for him. Too much building and investing to reliably (relatively speaking) run a "fast" setup like that.
What this leaves are the entry level turbo and supercharger kits for the OP to choose from for the Celica that the stock tranny and pistons can handle (even though forged Mahle drop in stock compression pistons are available for purchase now). And lookey...this new generation TVS style supercharger is making more power at 10 psi of boost than any of the other FI options, and it's generously priced without engine management and injectors should anybody PM turbophil for the cost. In fact, by the time you add the PFC, datalogit, and injectors, you'll still basically be around the turbokits.com and monkewrench racing Garret GT28 series turbo kit price range with the PFC.
Also, "Slow" is subjective to what's realistic for a car, and what the car can handle, assuming we are just talking about going in a straight line. A giant leap to turn our 15 second cars to 10-11 second cars is wayyy more costly in setting the car up for that type of power than turning out cars into streetable 12 second cars, which could be possible with that new generation of supercharger on the stock motor, or even as someone on youtube demonstrated with a low trap speed, boltons and a 75 shot with slicks running on the stock ECU (obviously not 12 seconds on the street).
In any case, you guys be the judge. Here's a youtube video of a TVS supercharged Lotus chasing down a turbocharged Lotus with a better driver, less hp, but more torque: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQqwsLBlauE .
IMO, "Fast" is cool only when the weak links of your car can stay together...at least in our car.
Whether turbo's or superchargers must make his car "fast" is less of a concern as to whether it's reliable or not, which means he is looking for power around the power levels that our crap-tacular 6 speed gear box can handle, along with the even weaker stock pistons. What does that mean? No Garrett GT30-GT35 kits for him. Too much building and investing to reliably (relatively speaking) run a "fast" setup like that.
What this leaves are the entry level turbo and supercharger kits for the OP to choose from for the Celica that the stock tranny and pistons can handle (even though forged Mahle drop in stock compression pistons are available for purchase now). And lookey...this new generation TVS style supercharger is making more power at 10 psi of boost than any of the other FI options, and it's generously priced without engine management and injectors should anybody PM turbophil for the cost. In fact, by the time you add the PFC, datalogit, and injectors, you'll still basically be around the turbokits.com and monkewrench racing Garret GT28 series turbo kit price range with the PFC.
Also, "Slow" is subjective to what's realistic for a car, and what the car can handle, assuming we are just talking about going in a straight line. A giant leap to turn our 15 second cars to 10-11 second cars is wayyy more costly in setting the car up for that type of power than turning out cars into streetable 12 second cars, which could be possible with that new generation of supercharger on the stock motor, or even as someone on youtube demonstrated with a low trap speed, boltons and a 75 shot with slicks running on the stock ECU (obviously not 12 seconds on the street).
In any case, you guys be the judge. Here's a youtube video of a TVS supercharged Lotus chasing down a turbocharged Lotus with a better driver, less hp, but more torque: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQqwsLBlauE .
IMO, "Fast" is cool only when the weak links of your car can stay together...at least in our car.
Fact: all centrifugal superchargers take a long time to build boost
Fact: superchargers are no more reliable than turbochargers (in fact, given all the failures with various Greddy parts, I'd say less)
The peak hp on these kits is irrelevant. I could give a crap what it does if you wring the piss out of the motor. The fact is that for 280 whp (peak), I could build a turbo car that is making full boost by 3500 rpm and will absolutely blow the supercharger out of the water through the midrange. This will be a much faster car in all situations, particularly on the street (which is where 99.9% of your driving is done).
Track times are also completely irrelevant because you're talking about operating the engine in a very narrow range around it's peak power point. That is why N/A cars car turn in respectable track times despite have torqueless, peaky powerbands. MemphizStyez is absolutely right: putting a supercharger on a small-displacement engine is stupid. The only reason people continue to do it is because of the continuing myth that is perpetuated that they're more reliable.
The Greddy kit has had any number of issues with bracket failures, bypass valve issues, etc. The typical part that fails on a turbo kit is the manifold. Beyond that it comes down to tuning, which sucks whatever way you go. If people want reliable, they shouldn't turbocharge or supercharge a Celica if they can't tune the car themselves.
Fact: superchargers are no more reliable than turbochargers (in fact, given all the failures with various Greddy parts, I'd say less)
The peak hp on these kits is irrelevant. I could give a crap what it does if you wring the piss out of the motor. The fact is that for 280 whp (peak), I could build a turbo car that is making full boost by 3500 rpm and will absolutely blow the supercharger out of the water through the midrange. This will be a much faster car in all situations, particularly on the street (which is where 99.9% of your driving is done).
Track times are also completely irrelevant because you're talking about operating the engine in a very narrow range around it's peak power point. That is why N/A cars car turn in respectable track times despite have torqueless, peaky powerbands. MemphizStyez is absolutely right: putting a supercharger on a small-displacement engine is stupid. The only reason people continue to do it is because of the continuing myth that is perpetuated that they're more reliable.
The Greddy kit has had any number of issues with bracket failures, bypass valve issues, etc. The typical part that fails on a turbo kit is the manifold. Beyond that it comes down to tuning, which sucks whatever way you go. If people want reliable, they shouldn't turbocharge or supercharge a Celica if they can't tune the car themselves.
^^I'm not a retard, this isn't my first car, I know what's going on and I have all the necessary help and tools to tune my own car. So, that's not the problem. I don't want this thread blowing out of fvcking proportion. I realize a lot of people probably post questions asking about turbos and superchargers and the like but I just wanted every piece of advice I could get before I embark on this endeavor. Thank you to the guys that have had some truly informative posts for me.
Points taken.
But as you know, the Lotus guys are anal about losing weight on their cars. The TVS setup weighs wayyy less than a turbo setup with intercooler and all, so it works out for them in the sense they don't add on as much weight, especially around the engine bay, where most of the mass is already centered in their MR cars.
But I do agree with you on many fronts. If a Lotus member wasn't up to throwing me his MP62 and injectors, along with his TVS after he gets it & when he goes back to stock, I'd have saved up to go turbo.
But as you know, the Lotus guys are anal about losing weight on their cars. The TVS setup weighs wayyy less than a turbo setup with intercooler and all, so it works out for them in the sense they don't add on as much weight, especially around the engine bay, where most of the mass is already centered in their MR cars.
But I do agree with you on many fronts. If a Lotus member wasn't up to throwing me his MP62 and injectors, along with his TVS after he gets it & when he goes back to stock, I'd have saved up to go turbo.
Dudes take it from a guy that's spent a tons of money on cars over the years......and I know the guys makin this stuff will hate me.....but buy a different car, use your unmodified Celica as a trade-in and get the SC/Turbo car you want to be as good as......
If you don't have fuuuuk U money to piss away don't do it......trust me I know what I'm talkin about....
If you don't have fuuuuk U money to piss away don't do it......trust me I know what I'm talkin about....
I don't think he's going to get it....I added maybe 20+ lbs more to the car vs the TVS setup, but I've allowed for WAY MORE power all over the rev range, apparently the 20+ lbs negates the gains...according to him (demonstrated by his defense of the TVS with remarks about its "light weight" features over a turbo setup). Those guys better not eat before they get in their car either, cause that'll surely fvck their day up
99.9% of these Lotus guys worried about the weight are idiots when power can be made so easy with a turbo.......
First off the Lotus has always felt better on track/road with a passenger siting on the otherside, this low weight BS is for guys that are too fuvkin cheap to add power..
What freakin idiots playin ricky racer takin out the cheap ass carpets thinkin that they'll go faster.....
Oh yeah I sold Jordan my intake manifold only.....weight is not the enemy...lack of power is...
First off the Lotus has always felt better on track/road with a passenger siting on the otherside, this low weight BS is for guys that are too fuvkin cheap to add power..
What freakin idiots playin ricky racer takin out the cheap ass carpets thinkin that they'll go faster.....
Oh yeah I sold Jordan my intake manifold only.....weight is not the enemy...lack of power is...
i went with the supercharger due to the ease of installation. the only issues were the cracked brackets (easily fixed or replaced by the boe brackets) and the bypass valve (easily replaced as well). some of us just wanted a little more pep not a destroy all vehicle. just know your power goals ahead of time. it may be better just to change your platform.
your chassis isn't in danger with a little over 300 wtq at like 5000 rpm ....who are you fooling??? There are civics from the early 90s (weighing similar to your lotus, crx look it up) designed for sub 100 wtq with wayyyyy more power than that lotus and their chassis is fine. So again, who are you fooling ??
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