[2jz-style]

No visual on *E351e yet, E359f bell house/final drive combo or you modify the exhaust for bigger engine bay setup. The black rubber dust cap is on the rear side. celica/lotus is front side. http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showpost.php?p=6130058

 

[JakesFate]

No visual on *E351e yet, E359f bell house/final drive combo or you modify the exhaust for bigger engine bay setup. The black rubber dust cap is on the rear side. celica/lotus is front side. http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showpost.php?p=6130058

The 250 is on the correct side so that might be the better route. Comes off the 3sfe so a adapter plate may be needed not 100% sure yet will get actual pictures of the trans at the junkyard soon.

 

[2jz-style]

Last thing is when looking at the e359f compared to the regular (non Awd) they have completely different final drives. Maybe you can help me find some more info on that because as o see it now basically the transfer case is acting more like a diff. Yet I can't find any info on the transfer case gearing.

Okay, slightly better explanation. The ring gear should fit LSD but the front diff intricate cannot mesh with the *center diff. Torsen type will turn opposite way and the blown diff's won't turn anything. Viscous type was used in the 153 so it gets complicated from different LSD types.

http://strav3vz.blogspot.ca/2013/05/dissasembling-e250f-e53-transaxles-2.html

 

[JakesFate]

Its been about a month since the last post so.....

Its time for a update:

I'm currently looking more into how the rav4 4.1 and 4.2 trannys work. They are a full time awd with a front lsd / awd lsd?
Not exactly, Looking more into it and reading up on some info of the differentials in the transmissions. They have a front and center diff built into one.(Been tons of previous posts and info about this)
But... if you are like me you wonder how it is supposed to work.
This video explains how it would work. Looks like they reused what worked in the first rav4 in the new sienna and highlanders
https://youtu.be/pN6-gCxI60g?t=222

Still dont get it? Yeah it was still a little tough for me to understand how that works and it not being mumbo jumbo.

So I am going to try and explain how I see it working. I posted this picture before, but lets take a closer look

Time to break it down. There is two axles like I noted before one is hollowed out so the drive shaft can fit through it connecting to you guessed it the front diff. The bigger one that is hollowed out is what connects to the center diff.

Did I loose you?
Thats okay because it can be confusing I will try to explain it further. Thanks to chatting with 2jz and his last post to this blog they compare a e53 diff to a e250 off a rav

Doesnt really help right?

Lets take a look at how all the parts connect

Ahhh now we are getting somewhere.... I think.
So from what I understand is the big shaft connects the center to the transfer case while the small shaft keeps the front lsd a separate trans axle.

BUT WAIT THEIRS MORE!!!
This is totally different than how the 154f works. The 154 works through a center lock.

The matrix works like the new rav4 and others through a "on demand system" which basically means that when the front wheels spin power goes to the transfercase/rear and that is just pointless if I want AWD i want the real thing not this wimpy something bad happened this will fix it thing.


So what are the next steps?
Well I came across this here It shows how to turn a c52 into a six speed using a 153 lsd diff. Yeah yeah yeah what does that mean? it means that the possibility of getting a e250f diff or a 359 one of the lsd full time awd diffs should work with the standard c series manual trans. That's where I am and were we are on this project I am trying to find a way to make it cost and close to stock I can. Could of it been done already for a higher cost... yeah.
But I feel like I should try to make this as close to stock so it can be easily replicated.

Thats where we stand,
So for next update,
Jake

 

[TRlPPlN]

sub'd because this is interesting.

 

[m70b1jr]

i dont know much about transmissions, ive read this post over like 10x now. So, time to ask some noob questions

1.) About how much will this cost? Assuming we find a suitable transfer case / transmission/ diff whatever.

2.) How does the rear end mount up?

3.) Will we have a manual AWD transmission or is it going to be AUTO Only?

4.) Is this really worth it? I plan on just running intake / exhaust / stage 2 cams / tune (180WHP?) is it enough to run this AWD Setup and increase acceleration? or will it be a sluggish system.

 

[JakesFate]

i dont know much about transmissions, ive read this post over like 10x now. So, time to ask some noob questions

1.) About how much will this cost? Assuming we find a suitable transfer case / transmission/ diff whatever.

2.) How does the rear end mount up?

3.) Will we have a manual AWD transmission or is it going to be AUTO Only?

4.) Is this really worth it? I plan on just running intake / exhaust / stage 2 cams / tune (180WHP?) is it enough to run this AWD Setup and increase acceleration? or will it be a sluggish system.

Hey its no problem, I'll answer your questions so dont be afraid to ask.

1.) I have everything except a compatable transmission and i'm in at a hefty price of $250 I've been able to keep my cost down by looking at craigslist for parts cars along with junk yard cars.

2.) I haven't taken the time to go out and mount in the rear diff, but it is possible I think to do without any cutting... Just will need a new exhaust / smaller muffler.

3.) I am using a 6 speed c60 and I plan to make it work stick only... since most autos can just do a tranny swap and not worry about the transfer case

4.) "Is it worth it?" for someone who goes to the track and has a built 2zz yeah probably worth it. For someone like me in the pnw who uses it as a daily and worry about slipping in snow and rain... yeah. Also why would anyone want a gt4 if they could just have a normal celica with a built 3s gte. and 180whp sounds like you have a gt. I'm starting with the 2zz which is about 180 already around there.

The matrix awd is using a 1zz and it is running awd. Give it that its a sequential awd... Only sends power to the rear when it is in high rev, but when you think about it the car is very light.

tl;dr So if you plan to build a engine it might not be sluggish, if not its a possibility but there is a rwd 2zz on the forum here. He seems to be having fun with it


Going back to your first question I wanted to add on to it transfer case I think should be used is 96-05 rav4 transfer cases or 06+ sienna, highlander as I previously explained that they work on a full time awd at the cost of 50% power at the rear wheels... which I might know of a work around, but we would get back into the problem of it being sluggish.

Transmission... Currently I think the c series tranny will work with a different diff. Auto transmission those lucky guys just need to buy a awd transmission

rear diff rav4 96-03 since it is lsd on the 4wd models. I will see what I can do to further explain the diff on another post....


Hope this helps, let me know.

Jake

 

[m70b1jr]

Hey its no problem, I'll answer your questions so dont be afraid to ask.

1.) I have everything except a compatable transmission and i'm in at a hefty price of $250 I've been able to keep my cost down by looking at craigslist for parts cars along with junk yard cars.

2.) I haven't taken the time to go out and mount in the rear diff, but it is possible I think to do without any cutting... Just will need a new exhaust / smaller muffler.

3.) I am using a 6 speed c60 and I plan to make it work stick only... since most autos can just do a tranny swap and not worry about the transfer case

4.) "Is it worth it?" for someone who goes to the track and has a built 2zz yeah probably worth it. For someone like me in the pnw who uses it as a daily and worry about slipping in snow and rain... yeah. Also why would anyone want a gt4 if they could just have a normal celica with a built 3s gte. and 180whp sounds like you have a gt. I'm starting with the 2zz which is about 180 already around there.

The matrix awd is using a 1zz and it is running awd. Give it that its a sequential awd... Only sends power to the rear when it is in high rev, but when you think about it the car is very light.

tl;dr So if you plan to build a engine it might not be sluggish, if not its a possibility but there is a rwd 2zz on the forum here. He seems to be having fun with it


Going back to your first question I wanted to add on to it transfer case I think should be used is 96-05 rav4 transfer cases or 06+ sienna, highlander as I previously explained that they work on a full time awd at the cost of 50% power at the rear wheels... which I might know of a work around, but we would get back into the problem of it being sluggish.

Transmission... Currently I think the c series tranny will work with a different diff. Auto transmission those lucky guys just need to buy a awd transmission

rear diff rav4 96-03 since it is lsd on the 4wd models. I will see what I can do to further explain the diff on another post....


Hope this helps, let me know.

Jake

According to dynos i've seen, i thought all GT-S's made 160WHP and 180 at the crank.. I've yet to dyno my car so im not sure.

I dont know much about AWD Systems, but how do you make the C60 6-speed work with AWD? It doesn't have a thing to connect a drive shaft?

Last question

How long do you think it will take you before you have the system ready? In all honesty, i'm really interested in this, especially for how cheap you've managed to do it so far. I started colleged about 1 week ago, but i think i could save back some money to do this. I got the Celica because it was a unique car (Not many around here, im usually the only celica at any car meet) and it would be even more badass to make it AWD to show those Subbie guys

 

[JakesFate]

According to dynos i've seen, i thought all GT-S's made 160WHP and 180 at the crank.. I've yet to dyno my car so im not sure.



I dont know much about AWD Systems, but how do you make the C60 6-speed work with AWD? It doesn't have a thing to connect a drive shaft?



Last question



How long do you think it will take you before you have the system ready? In all honesty, i'm really interested in this, especially for how cheap you've managed to do it so far. I started colleged about 1 week ago, but i think i could save back some money to do this. I got the Celica because it was a unique car (Not many around here, im usually the only celica at any car meet) and it would be even more badass to make it AWD to show those Subbie guys

You are correct in that it doesn’t have any way to connect it, but after looking at the manual rav4 transmission (e250) I noticed that the face plate (or transfer case connection) it pushed out a little. It’s just a little pushed out. So my thought currently is just make a small adapter plate since the transfer case doesn’t have any liquid flowing between the trans and the transfer case which seems possible. May require some small tack welds, but the rear transmission mount also bolts to the transfer case.

I previously posted about how a matrix owner converted his car to awd, he ran a small piece of flat stock to bolt it up, you can read that more here
forums.genvibe.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=41623

It’s very creative and it helps up out a little actually... as far as I know currently

The goal is to make it affordable for most people to do it, also to make it as stock as possible. Seeing as I think a lot of you are interested I might be posting guides along the way to guide this build.

To make the c60 awd we need a different diff inside the transmission, this was a way to keep the cost way down going further and making it a little easier to source a suitable transmission. If I decided to go with the 153 I would still need to change the diff and get the adapter plate... which is pretty expensive for some reason. I could of gotten the rav4.1 trans (e250) but would need to re route the shifter cables and make a new adapter plate. Plus added on to that the 250 is broken easily if not cared for which is what I found I couldn’t get one with a working 4/5 gear.

Like I said I will post further on what a diff is and what one will work, but currently I am thinking that I just tear apart the e253 for the diff... like a previous post a guy did to fit into his e53. The up side to this is the rav4.1 or 96-01 is lsd so the front would be lsd.

Not sure on a timeframe, trying to get the parts so I have a working puzzle and I can piece it all together. Would be impressive, but it wouldn’t be fast... next project in mind for me after this was giving the car a little more boost power so the awd isn’t as wimpy

I hope that somewhat answered your questions, and I will be posting on my diff findings soon just gotta see what’s out there.

Thanks,
Jake

 

[m70b1jr]

You are correct in that it doesn’t have any way to connect it, but after looking at the manual rav4 transmission (e250) I noticed that the face plate (or transfer case connection) it pushed out a little. It’s just a little pushed out. So my thought currently is just make a small adapter plate since the transfer case doesn’t have any liquid flowing between the trans and the transfer case which seems possible. May require some small tack welds, but the rear transmission mount also bolts to the transfer case.

I previously posted about how a matrix owner converted his car to awd, he ran a small piece of flat stock to bolt it up, you can read that more here
forums.genvibe.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=41623

It’s very creative and it helps up out a little actually... as far as I know currently

The goal is to make it affordable for most people to do it, also to make it as stock as possible. Seeing as I think a lot of you are interested I might be posting guides along the way to guide this build.

To make the c60 awd we need a different diff inside the transmission, this was a way to keep the cost way down going further and making it a little easier to source a suitable transmission. If I decided to go with the 153 I would still need to change the diff and get the adapter plate... which is pretty expensive for some reason. I could of gotten the rav4.1 trans (e250) but would need to re route the shifter cables and make a new adapter plate. Plus added on to that the 250 is broken easily if not cared for which is what I found I couldn’t get one with a working 4/5 gear.

Like I said I will post further on what a diff is and what one will work, but currently I am thinking that I just tear apart the e253 for the diff... like a previous post a guy did to fit into his e53. The up side to this is the rav4.1 or 96-01 is lsd so the front would be lsd.

Not sure on a timeframe, trying to get the parts so I have a working puzzle and I can piece it all together. Would be impressive, but it wouldn’t be fast... next project in mind for me after this was giving the car a little more boost power so the awd isn’t as wimpy

I hope that somewhat answered your questions, and I will be posting on my diff findings soon just gotta see what’s out there.

Thanks,
Jake

Assuming we can convert the car to AWD, will it help our acceleration? I currently drive a '01 GT-S Manual with upgraded valve train (Thats it for mods)
Will i see a big difference in the 0 to 60? I'm alllll about acceleration, im not a top speed kinda guy.

 

[JakesFate]

Assuming we can convert the car to AWD, will it help our acceleration? I currently drive a '01 GT-S Manual with upgraded valve train (Thats it for mods)

Will i see a big difference in the 0 to 60? I'm alllll about acceleration, im not a top speed kinda guy.

Won’t be an increase it might most like be a decrease... unless you are spinning tires it won’t be a improvement... unless you increase torque there won’t be an improvement. If you want better acceleration I might recommend turbocharged.
Along with the transfer case I plan to use the rear will only make 50% what the front makes, the conversion is more for track and corners not about speed

Now if I would recommend a turbo go cheap with the junkyard special... most of the time the price is 15-20 for a turbo

Tl;dr possibly slower/ if you want faster acceleration increase torque with a turbo...

 

[m70b1jr]

Won’t be an increase it might most like be a decrease... unless you are spinning tires it won’t be a improvement... unless you increase torque there won’t be an improvement. If you want better acceleration I might recommend turbocharged.
Along with the transfer case I plan to use the rear will only make 50% what the front makes, the conversion is more for track and corners not about speed

Now if I would recommend a turbo go cheap with the junkyard special... most of the time the price is 15-20 for a turbo

Tl;dr possibly slower/ if you want faster acceleration increase torque with a turbo...

Boosting is kinda a far stretch. It's something I want to do, but I would have to be on a budget, and reliable with the stock pistons / rods. (I'm not tearing my engine apart again)
I'm gonna make a new post in the boosted section.

 

[JakesFate]

Boosting is kinda a far stretch. It's something I want to do, but I would have to be on a budget, and reliable with the stock pistons / rods. (I'm not tearing my engine apart again)

I'm gonna make a new post in the boosted section.

I’ve heard of people making 250-300 on stock internals... on the turbo thread lists stock internals... if you know how to weld and bend corners in pipes why not diy would be able to keep cost down, the ecumenical is what is most expensive

 

[JakesFate]

I’ve heard of people making 250-300 on stock internals... on the turbo thread lists stock internals... if you know how to weld and bend corners in pipes why not diy would be able to keep cost down, the ecumenical is what is most expensive

And after the awd part I will be doing a turbo build diy so people can do it on a budget

 

[m70b1jr]

I’ve heard of people making 250-300 on stock internals... on the turbo thread lists stock internals... if you know how to weld and bend corners in pipes why not diy would be able to keep cost down, the ecumenical is what is most expensive

i just made a thread
and I do have my welding certificate
I just don't know how to bend.

This is a far stretch, but every year, we have a car meet where I live (Charlotte) called Tuner Evolution. My dream is to have a car registered in the meet. THis year there was 2 celicas! (One was a GTS 6 speed and the other was a GT Auto). My goal by my senior year is to have one registered, here's my plans.

- Intake / maybe boosted
- exhaust
- stage 2 cams
- tune
- AWD (Maybe)
- TRD Kit
- New paint job
- some coilovers and lower it
- new wheels tires

It's a far stretch, considering im a college student but i think it'll be possible in a few years.

 

[JakesFate]

i just made a thread

and I do have my welding certificate

I just don't know how to bend.



This is a far stretch, but every year, we have a car meet where I live (Charlotte) called Tuner Evolution. My dream is to have a car registered in the meet. THis year there was 2 celicas! (One was a GTS 6 speed and the other was a GT Auto). My goal by my senior year is to have one registered, here's my plans.



- Intake / maybe boosted

- exhaust

- stage 2 cams

- tune

- AWD (Maybe)

- TRD Kit

- New paint job

- some coilovers and lower it

- new wheels tires



It's a far stretch, considering im a college student but i think it'll be possible in a few years.

I might have to post over there and see if I can help out, but if your doing cams why not turbo, and if you want to tune sounds like it might not be that troublesome. Sounds awesome good job and good luck I’ll try to help out if I can.

 

[m70b1jr]

Any updates?

 

[JakesFate]

Any updates?

Currently I am trying the swap in a c59 thanks to my sibling they recently got a celica with no trans in it, Taking this as a opportunity to change it out I found a place in town that will sell me just the diff for a reasonably price if I trade in the diff. It finally got here and at first I will not be posting anything on here about the process... because I would like to have at-least been in the rodeo before telling you all detailed stories about it. (Just as a note) This is not a awd diff because I am not completely ready to do this on my Daily. This is the rav4.1 fwd lsd diff... This makes the cost $5 to do a lsd swap rather than other prices. It being so cheap is why I thought about tackling this task. I will update later this month on if the rav4 diff
- Fits
- Stable
- Reliable


Sorry to everyone who wants more info on the project, this is a big project takes a lot of planning and backup plans. We are trying to do this right here, So it might take a little bit longer.... Just will have way less headaches.

Thank-you all for reading,
Jake.

 

[DatGTS00]

How is your progress with this?

The conversion would be more like Legos if I had the automatic version since there is a place to mount the transfer case on the c60,c59 there are no mounting holes. So only way to get it to mount is to source a new transmission. Which is the next step I am looking at pulling it from a 99 Camry v6... Very easy to find at my local junk yard

You mentioned here you believe the conversion may be easier with an auto tranny. How true is this?

I understand that AWD would only be a benefit with x amount of torque, and obviously thats an issue with the auto. But what if you had say:

A built IPT U240E w/ upgraded spring phantom grip, torque converter and valvebody
A complete 2.0L 2ZZ Stroker with P&P
3" I/H/E
Stage 2 MWR cams (bigger small lobe)
And an appropriately sized turbo?

I'm sure that'll get it moving

For the sake of this, lets assume the GTS is already equipped with these mods and is now just looking for the AWD to exceed traction limitations on turbo power (probably one of the few, if not the only real reason you would venture down this path)

Lets also forget cost of said setup (not the AWD setup, we obviously want to find the cheapest effective avenue). The way I see it, if you're able to put that 500hp to the ground and beat (some) stupidly expensive supercars, its worth it, true?

Now, I'm not debating auto vs manual here (probably better with the taller, built auto gears at that power anyway). If it works with the auto, we can go from there

 

[JakesFate]

How is your progress with this?



You mentioned here you believe the conversion may be easier with an auto tranny. How true is this?

I understand that AWD would only be a benefit with x amount of torque, and obviously thats an issue with the auto. But what if you had say:

A built IPT U240E w/ upgraded spring phantom grip, torque converter and valvebody
A complete 2.0L 2ZZ Stroker with P&P
3" I/H/E
Stage 2 MWR cams (bigger small lobe)
And an appropriately sized turbo?

I'm sure that'll get it moving

For the sake of this, lets assume the GTS is already equipped with these mods and is now just looking for the AWD to exceed traction limitations on turbo power (probably one of the few, if not the only real reason you would venture down this path)

Lets also forget cost of said setup (not the AWD setup, we obviously want to find the cheapest effective avenue). The way I see it, if you're able to put that 500hp to the ground and beat (some) stupidly expensive supercars, its worth it, true?

Now, I'm not debating auto vs manual here (probably better with the taller, built auto gears at that power anyway). If it works with the auto, we can go from there

Hypothetical situations usually mean people are afraid to ask the question, No no a auto “could” be done and it could actually be done a lot simpler, just a higher cost. There are also two different paths you could take. Changing out the diff in the auto transmission, then finding a way to bolt it to the transfer case(which is the path I’m on here) or swap it out for a different tranny which means you would need to remap the ecu. Not fun. The easier part for the auto people is there is a flatter face making it “possible” to add a couple of studs when adding the transfer case... the problem with that I think your asking? Would it help when wanting to put power to the ground, yes yes it would, but with a higher final drive and I’m assuming there is a 60-40 split instead of a 50-50(don’t quote me on that it has yet to be tested) depending on what diff you would get you in theory could get a 140u tranny diff and increase your top speed, but take away from the back wheels. That is where people could choose higher top speed and lower rpm, but less torque. I would say the u151f tranny would be the best in keeping it similar with about a 8-10% increase in torque. If you get into the 4.0 final drive like I am thinking of doing you would notice a drastic decrease in power. The manuals just have the possibility to put down more torque to the rear wheels.

Tl;dr manual has more torque capabilities, auto is easier because of the matrix awd tranny with a possible ecu flash... although not necessary because in theory you can swap bell housing and diff for it to work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk